Microsoft Philippines Community

That's a really bad situation to be in... What does CAI-STA have to say about it?

I don't think its right for an IT company to actually say that all other IT companies are their direct competitors...

We don't know the truth here so IMHO it would be unfair for both parties to dsicuss this on public. Besides the case in already in court and this might affect the current investigation being carried out by authorities. The best thing that she can do is to try hard to go for compromise agreement with DBSoft or talk to his lawyer.

Do you think this case would help DbSoft in the first place? I guess not. It would only dragged down their developer's morale to the lowest level. If this is true, expect a very high turn over rate  on DbSoft's employees. I think the value of the case isnt as simple as breach-of-contract, we never know, we can only expect. What if its IP infringement, violation of NDA, this can be anything.

As I always said before, it doesn't matter how long you served the company. They don't care and you have to accept it. You are only as good as what your are doing in your job and your company's financial standing. This is a lighter case compare to others fyi.

Hindi nakapagtataka sa part ko. Hindi sa sinisiraan ko ang DbSoft pero I applied them before and their replies was meant to remember. Parang walang respeto sila sa interviewee. Pede mo naman sabihin ng maayos na hindi ka competent sa job offering nila dun sa course mo eh parang ipapahiya ka pa. Buti na lang at sa text at email ko nabasa un. Buti na lang at hindi ako napunta sa kanila.

The problem here is that an agreement (tagalog: kasunduan) is signed by both parties. Both parties AGREED to certain terms. If ever the court will side in favor of the employee, then the courts are laying down a foundation wherein agreements can be overturned just like that. An agreement works both ways. Example, it will be indicated in the agreement that the employee is entitled to a certain amount as of a certain day (15K every 15/30) given certain conditions (work 40 hrs/week). If ever the employee fulfills the obligations yet the employer reneges on his, then the employee can go to the courts for redress and damages as well. That's what agreements are for, ladies and gentlemen!

And trial by publicity, for me, is wrong because it renders our courts useless, and our press a very powerful arm with boundless limits.

The picture may be a lot bigger than what appears in the email. Like for example, the new company may be a rabid competitor of the old one, the employee left in questionable circumstances, etc, or the employee is involved in a very confidential project which may cause the employer to lose big business if ever the confidentiality is breached, etc.

If I think about this from the point of view of the employer, I wouldn't waste time and money paying for lawyer(s) and court fees for this little case and exposing myself to damage counterclaims as well. That is, if I'm dealing with just an off-the-shelf employee. The employee in question may be a strategic one.

I believe the solution here is that there has to be a law in place that states that it is illegal to bind employees to whatever after termination of their employment, especially if the line of work is very specialized (like, where can a pharmacist work after one drug firm but only to another drug firm or a pharmacy).

Next time, it's wise to read the fine print before you affix your signature. And young folks, make sure you have a copy of your agreements and review every once in a while your obligations to those agreements. You'll never know when you're already exposing yourself to a lawsuit. Maybe it's time to think about the realities when we turned 18 and became "of legal age." It means we can sign agreements and bear the consequences thereof if we're not responsible enough to read before we sign.

An outcome very favorable to the employee may come out of this: a TRO is issued but the judge orders the employer to remunerate the employee yung last rate nya for the duration of the TRO. E di OK! 60 days paid leave!, during which time the employee can now look for a non-developer firm employer.

I pray that justice and righteousness be served in this case.

if it is proven true that the new company and the old company are not directly competing against each other then the case will probably be dismissed. however by then the employee would have been intimidated and jarred by those legal fees. kawawa naman.

this thing isn't happening only in the Philippines. remember that one about the Chinese guy that Google pirated from Microsoft? sabagay, yun eh directly competing nga ang Google at Microsoft.
 

elygirang:

So all of us must beware of this company! Praning ang mga yan! For them, everybody is their competitor. So what? If they provide quality software, then why do they worry? Siguro alam nilang mas magaling ang kanilang "competitors".

Why would you? That's unjust and prejudice, we never know the truth here, it is a complicated matter and to just reccommend a "boycot" to this company is unfair.

It is truem when you are in outsourcing business, everybofy is your competitor in the contracting field. The product development field is a different case. To tell you, even though I am no longer employed by my former company, I understand I cannot be employed by our direct competitor for period of three years. Maybe there's a similar clause in the contract she signed.

The litigation is costly for DbSoft, so do you think it is just as simple case as that "breach-of-contract".

From my experience, no matter how good the offer is and how enticing it is to go to greener field, make sure you don't burn the bridge.  

cruizer:

this thing isn't happening only in the Philippines. remember that one about the Chinese guy that Google pirated from Microsoft? sabagay, yun eh directly competing nga ang Google at Microsoft.
 

Si Kai-Fu Lee.

I agree with Jay ... basta contrata ... might as well memorize it so you don't expose yourself to lawsuits. this is long overdue actually as there is rampant poaching of employees in the country. there is actually a joke in the IT employers circle that all employees leave and they only have one destination -- ACCENTURE.

Mag ingat na lang tayo and let us not take for granted the contracts that we sign. BY affixing our signature ... we are waiving some of our rights. Only the courts can determine if it is indeed lawful or not. Mahirap at magastos ang maembroil sa legal cases. Some would not even dare to file a case unless of course it is of significant importance. It is but prudent to be aware of the things you sign. Dont think that the other party you signed with wont enforce the agreement even if you are a mere nobody. Companies use contracts to protect themselves against various exposures. It is but understandable na meron talagang mga contracts na mahigpit.

Like Rodel has said ... maige wag tayo padalos dalos sa mga husga natin sa kaso since we dont very well know the real score. isang party lang narinig natin. Baka naman me grounds kaya nagdemanda. No one sane company will ever go to the courts if they think they will lose the case or they have no chances of winning. Tingin ko lang, nde biro biro ang mainvolve sa isang kaso. KUng petty case lang ito.. maige pang let go na lang yung kaso at wag na dalhin sa korte. Pagusapan na lang outside of the court. But since nasa korte na to ... I have the impression that this is somethign serious.

This is interesting to monitor from an employer's perspective. nde kase gaanogn clear at walang masyadogn precedent tayo re poaching cases dito sa bansa and most IT companies are suffering from being poached. i guess it is about time that the courts give us guidelines through this case.

Well, a friend of mine who used to work for Accenture said that many of those who left for some reason or another also went back to Accenture after a year or two, for some reason or another. So maybe there's something there, but that's off topic.

I think this case will definitely boil down to the definition of "competitor". DBSoft must be able to define this in specific, not broad terms. By IT company, do they mean any company that engages in development work whether from onshore or offshore clients? Or do they mean companies that specifically target certain niche markets which DBSoft is involved in?

If DBSoft had a broad definition of "competitor", the case is deifnitely up for grabs -- because the definition is subject to interpretation, even if it is stipulated in the contract. And anything that lacks a concrete definition in a contract is subject to scrutiny as to whether there is a breach of contract that happened or not.

IMHO IT is not as specialized in pharmacy, but such agreements narrow your options significantly. You'll be left with IT departments of non-IT industries, which are more often than not lower paying and with less openings to boot. 

Lastly, please don't make this thread a venue to lambast DBSoft, or any other company. You'll never know if you're hurting anyone who might be at the opposite end of the interview table in the future.
 

suddenserenity:

elygirang:

So all of us must beware of this company! Praning ang mga yan! For them, everybody is their competitor. So what? If they provide quality software, then why do they worry? Siguro alam nilang mas magaling ang kanilang "competitors".

Why would you? That's unjust and prejudice, we never know the truth here, it is a complicated matter and to just reccommend a "boycot" to this company is unfair.

It is truem when you are in outsourcing business, everybofy is your competitor in the contracting field. The product development field is a different case. To tell you, even though I am no longer employed by my former company, I understand I cannot be employed by our direct competitor for period of three years. Maybe there's a similar clause in the contract she signed.

The litigation is costly for DbSoft, so do you think it is just as simple case as that "breach-of-contract".

From my experience, no matter how good the offer is and how enticing it is to go to greener field, make sure you don't burn the bridge.  

If a company has done it to one of its employees, then they can do it to other employees. "Hawak sa leeg" kung tawagin nga ng iba. Anyways, this is a public forum isn't it? So we are free to say our opinions. In my opinion BEWARE! Moreover, it is easy for us who haven't experienced those kind of unjustice to not fully understand.

Prejudice? On the part of the company maybe. How about on the part of the former employee? We're talking a company here versus an individual. It's not a company vs a company.

cruizer:

sabagay may point nga kayo, kung hindi key employee yun lumipat sa ibang company, hindi siguro ito hahabulin ng DBSoft at gagastos pa sila ng sangkatutak na legal fees (lagi namang mga lawyers ang nakikinabang sa ganyan eh, he he). malamang key personnel sya sa isang project dati na ngayon ay magkakumpitensya na ang CAI-STA at DBSoft. so it's entirely possible na nung pumasok yung employee sa CAI-STA eh hindi pa sila directly in competition pero ngayon magkatapat na sila. pwede di ba?

cruizer:

sabagay may point nga kayo, kung hindi key employee yun lumipat sa ibang company, hindi siguro ito hahabulin ng DBSoft at gagastos pa sila ng sangkatutak na legal fees (lagi namang mga lawyers ang nakikinabang sa ganyan eh, he he). malamang key personnel sya sa isang project dati na ngayon ay magkakumpitensya na ang CAI-STA at DBSoft. so it's entirely possible na nung pumasok yung employee sa CAI-STA eh hindi pa sila directly in competition pero ngayon magkatapat na sila. pwede di ba?

Di rin uubra yan bushing. If at the time the contract with CAI-STA was entered it is not in direct competition with DBSoft, then no breach of contract happened because the direct competition came "after the fact". Moot na dapat... hehehehe. 

LaTtEX:

cruizer:

sabagay may point nga kayo, kung hindi key employee yun lumipat sa ibang company, hindi siguro ito hahabulin ng DBSoft at gagastos pa sila ng sangkatutak na legal fees (lagi namang mga lawyers ang nakikinabang sa ganyan eh, he he). malamang key personnel sya sa isang project dati na ngayon ay magkakumpitensya na ang CAI-STA at DBSoft. so it's entirely possible na nung pumasok yung employee sa CAI-STA eh hindi pa sila directly in competition pero ngayon magkatapat na sila. pwede di ba?

Di rin uubra yan bushing. If at the time the contract with CAI-STA was entered it is not in direct competition with DBSoft, then no breach of contract happened because the direct competition came "after the fact". Moot na dapat... hehehehe. 

Eh what if the reason kaya sya lumipat is to be a direct competitor? i.e. sya yung key personnel sa dbsoft and transferring to CAI-STA allowed the organization to create a new team/add a new competency against DBSoft? Just a thought..

jasperjugan:

Eh what if the reason kaya sya lumipat is to be a direct competitor? i.e. sya yung key personnel sa dbsoft and transferring to CAI-STA allowed the organization to create a new team/add a new competency against DBSoft? Just a thought..

Mananalo dapat ang DBSoft, but the burden of proof is with them, but the proof lies in the motives of the managers of CAI-STA, kaya mas mahirap yung kaso. However, it will be easier to prove if CAI-STA courted a former or current client of DBSoft, a company that the person in question has already had contact with.

This case appears to be more complicated than it seems, 'no?
 

cruizer:

hey that's not true may mga kakilala rin akong umaalis sa accenture at lumilipat sa ibang company.

who is accenture anyway?

suddenserenity:

elygirang:

So all of us must beware of this company! Praning ang mga yan! For them, everybody is their competitor. So what? If they provide quality software, then why do they worry? Siguro alam nilang mas magaling ang kanilang "competitors".

Why would you? That's unjust and prejudice, we never know the truth here, it is a complicated matter and to just reccommend a "boycot" to this company is unfair.

It is truem when you are in outsourcing business, everybofy is your competitor in the contracting field. The product development field is a different case. To tell you, even though I am no longer employed by my former company, I understand I cannot be employed by our direct competitor for period of three years. Maybe there's a similar clause in the contract she signed.

The litigation is costly for DbSoft, so do you think it is just as simple case as that "breach-of-contract".

From my experience, no matter how good the offer is and how enticing it is to go to greener field, make sure you don't burn the bridge.  

I do burn bridges and i make it sure they are burnt to ashes. hehehe. it serves them right.

Hello to all,

I just came from the trial court but it was postponed.  Sa Feb 27 na po ulit but we need to submit our statements on Friday.

Whether negative or positive feedbacks ang nabasa ko dito, maraming maraming salamat.  I know I could not give more info because syempre on going na po ang case.  Its only the summary that I could give.

I for one could not believe na naka demanda ako.  I was just a programmer sa DBSoft... key person.... i dont think so.  FYI, 4 former employees of DBSoft transferred to Accenture at yung 2 hinabol din.  They were given demand letters by DBSoft.  Unfortunately, they were let go by Accenture including the other 2 na hindi pa man nabigyan ng demand letter.  But it was a good agreement between Accenture and the 4 according to them.

In CAI-STA dalawa kami.  Pareho kaming nabigyan ng demand letter.  CAI-STA supported us kasi nga they didn't see any breach of contract.  But as of the moment ako pa lang ang nabigyan ng fomal case.  I'm the "test case" actually. 

It was my lawyer who suggested that I come out to the public.  To let all others specially in IT Industry know about this and give their opinion and if ever, support. 

Kung company vs company ok lang sana e.. pro company vs employee, would you want this to happen to you?  Someone here said "years of service has no bearing".. yes sinabi nga din sa kin yan... then bakit nyo pa ko hahabulin? Wag pumirma ng di naiintindihan ang contract.  I understood the contract, and CAI is not their competitor, they even have different market.  Now saying that "all companies engaged in software development are their competitors" that's a different story.

Honestly, I am ok facing this civil case.  Lalo na supported ako ng CAI-STA (love ko na sila.. hehehe).  Ang di ko maintindihan is the TRO.  That will really damage me and my family.  I can't believe DBSoft would want that to happen to me. 

Anyways, salamat pa din.  Just keep on giving your thoughts.  But please don't forget to include me in your prayers.  If others want to come out and share their experiences like this or close to this, much better.

Susana